View Full Version : Rotation and curves
6th December 2004, 09:56 PM
Hello. I thought I'd start a new topic for this after comments by Jenny and Ivanleg about the importance of rotation and curves. I guess my situation is quite different from many on here, so I don't know whether rotation v. curves is something of more interest to those with IS than JS or AS, but I'm interested to hear views on whether rotation is more important than curves or VV.
I recently read a research paper that suggested that (in IS) a spine curved because there was a rotation, yet I always figured it was the other way round. It made me wonder whether I was becoming obsessed by the wrong angle? I guess the resident experts will put me right, but wondered if a discussion about it might help others too.
6th December 2004, 10:05 PM
i dont kown what you are talking about
6th December 2004, 10:29 PM
I'm not much good at explaining I'm afraid, but as well as the spine curving, some of us have quite a bit of rotation as well, which is where the spine rotates and creates a rib hump. Erin has quite a bit of rotation, I think, although it's not measured at our appointments and I was wondering if knowing her degree of rotation would help us understand. Jenny mentioned that her consultant had said rotation was more important than curvature, so I guess I was just trying to explore that point.
6th December 2004, 10:30 PM
I don't know which is more important seems to me that they both would be but I have never really thought about it. I am not sure of my rotation, how do you know what it is? It seems that the more it was rotated, the harder it would eventually be to fix it surgically. I could be totally wrong though.
7th December 2004, 12:17 AM
I was told that my spine was curving AND my spine was torsioning - which basically means twisting on itself in place. Picture a pipe cleaner you bend it in two or three places to represent your curves. Now grip the bottom and top of the pipecleaner(spine) very tightly and twist the pipe cleaner without changing curves that's tortioning your spine which is what I assume is the rotation.
7th December 2004, 02:58 AM
Jonny made one heck of an illustration of this using one of those little plastic binders...
Can't find it though....
7th December 2004, 09:20 AM
thanks for starting this one Andrea I would like to know about peoples experiences with rotations too as Ryan has one :D
7th December 2004, 10:05 AM
Rotation is a new worry for me. I have been experiencing some in the last decade (very mild, considering the rest of me) after thinking that I would be stable once past my adolescent growth spurt, and have finally been able to connect a trip to the emergency room in '94 to shifting ribs caused by rotation. My lung function has been pretty stable over this time, so it doesn't seem to be having much impact where that's concerned... but it's something I'm keeping my eye on.
7th December 2004, 11:46 AM
With hindsight, I am sure that I had my curve at least as early as 7 or 8 - there were definite signs that just weren't picked up or understood. However, it was still only around 60 degrees when it was diagnosed, and 4 years later when I had surgery had changed little in size - so it was not an especially aggressive curve (which is a good deal of the reason I really wish it had been discovered early and braced - I think I would have avoided surgery), and had little in the way of rotation.
However, I am pretty sure that the rotation was starting deteriorate toward the time that I had surgery - I was getting increased pain, and had a noticeable increase in the rib prominence. So I do wonder if curves with lower rotation are less agressive - it would be interesting to see a study of unfused large curves and adult progression rates measured against rotation. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if rotation becomes more significant for progression in single curves than in balanced double major curves for example. (That probably doesn't really help at all as answers go - sorry!)
7th December 2004, 12:27 PM
Ryans rotation is at the top of his spine from his neck to around the bottome of his major curve around halfway down his back.it seems to be where his more 'sticky out bits' are..oh by the way he's up to 5 hours at school and another 2 in the evening in his brace YAY RYAN!!! :niceone: We are thinking of maybe doing an all nighter this weekend??
7th December 2004, 01:48 PM
Wow - he's doing really great :niceone:
7th December 2004, 02:09 PM
That's a photo of my upper spine and neck. Note the way the vertebrae rotate to one side while the neck vertebrae seem flat.The rotation changes the shape of the chest wall and this produces a sharp angled rib hump.Without the rotation the rib hump is less severe .I guess if you take myself and Pauline,we both have thoracic curves in excess of 110 degrees.She doesn't have a rib hump, I do. Rotation sucks!
7th December 2004, 03:28 PM
yeouch! Thanks for sharing that sins.I suppose thats why Ryans bits stick out there more then if thats where his rotation is.I'm learning so much from this site thanks a lot :D
8th December 2004, 01:43 PM
Thanks Andrea for starting this topic.
Mr Hutchinson's words about rotation being more important than curves has continued to bug me since that consultation.
I have now written to him asking if it is possible to measure rotation and if that's possible wouldn't it be sensible to collate comparitive figures. I'll let you know his reply.
8th December 2004, 11:09 PM
I'm laughing. The torsioning my spine did "really screwed things up in there and its a challenge to measure." This spoken by a scoliosis specialist might be the understatement of my life. A challenge to measure? Try living with it buddy!
9th December 2004, 06:47 PM
Blair i have found it
heres a link to jonnys photos
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