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Sandman77
11th January 2008, 09:15 PM
hello Caro,

seeing im sitting right here in Bad Salzungen one of two of the best Schroth Clinics in the world. I just had to post a reply to you...

Now if knowing how Germans treat Scoliosis they tend to go the non operativ way with tons of bracing and Schrothing... What is Schroth? Well im also myself fresh here and starting to do the exersizes I can say its split into several sections.

1. Realigning your Spine using aid no bracing mind you all though also used later or as a support
2. In "proper" posistion strenghten the muscles to work against your Scoliosis
3. breath correctly while doing the exersizes
4. learn to do so at home...
5. muscles and lung training

I can say even if you HAD surgery and HAVE a brace this still does wonders, I am not kidding... It works... The spine becomes straighter you regain height, you get rid of your pain and increase your overall well being feeling...

This clinic also allows parents to come with kids, for the kids as guide or teenagers, even very old people are here and also many other aspects of Scoliosis works with Schroth like Scheuermanss or Kyphoscoliosis you name it...

To mention a few words on myself, I got harington rod t2-t12 back in 86, 5 years of bracing, one kidney, one lung, to small heart and a 3 curl spine curve of approx 65-86 and a co founder of a Scoliosis website. Ive done the paperwork and know whats best for me and could be for many other with Scoliosis...

I can answer questions if you like just reply.

Sandman77
11th January 2008, 09:24 PM
www.ErikaMaude.com for Schroth in English.

titch
12th January 2008, 12:29 AM
Hi William,

It's welcome to hear from someone who actually is pursuing Schroth therapy, as it seems to have proven very difficult for anyone to find people who have actually gone through it to talk about their experiences.

I'd like to note a couple of things. The first one is that for as long as you have a solid fusion, and intact rods, the fused part of the spine cannot under any circumstances be made straighter by exercises. They may in some cases cause some improvement of the unfused portions of the spine, and also of course may help with pain relief, comfort and improvements in strength across the whole back. Also, while Erika's site is informative, in terms of actual clinics there are other practicioners offering Schroth treatment in English, including Isabelle Grote who, like Erika, is a member here :-)

Finally, I would like to point out that we never lifted your ban for previous appalling behaviour, and have not been asked for or given permission for you to start a new account. Therefore, you have been placed on permanent moderation. This means that you will be able to post - we do welcome any positive contribution you make to the site - but your posts will not appear until they have been checked and allowed by a moderator.

Amazed Jean
12th January 2008, 05:19 AM
Thanks for the opinion William. I just hope that no one comes here for support and reads your post and then think that Schroth method can cure scoliosis. I am sure there things that can be effected by the method, I am equally sure that is not for everyone and isn't available to all.

Little Ali
12th January 2008, 05:04 PM
Sorry but I'm sure it could work for me either. I have structural kyphoscioliosis due to Spina Bifida and am unable to strengthen the muscles that help support the spine and straighten me up.

Also, like Titch said, if a section if your spine is fused, it's not possible for the curve to move, although I suppose you could become straighter if the bits above and below the fusion become straighter.

caro
12th January 2008, 08:33 PM
William,

Thank you so much for your reply. It is wonderful to hear from someone going through the treatment. I am getting rather frustrated with the situation. This is a brilliant site with lots of supportive members but I do feel a bit out on a limb.

I have registered to do 4 weeks of Shroth in the summer. I can't say I'm looking forward to it but I have to take a positive viewpoint. Your e-mail has lifted my spirits as I was getting really low about my back, the pain, and how even my summer holiday is going to be taken over by my back..

Please do keep posting about your experiences.

Thank you!

Sandman77
13th January 2008, 10:22 AM
Hello again Caro,

I saw your post also on the German site where I hang out. Im rather dissapointed in the reply you got there, it was meant good hearted but to be honest the only expert of your spine is you. You must decide what is the best for you and make the decision in what way your treatment will go.

I must admit I tend to say at 40 + curve go surgery now I cant really say this is wise. As Schroth cannot work at once it needs its time. It does NOT matter if your fused or not, you still get an INCREASE in straightness. For me that is not important as my primary goal is increase of Lung Volume and overall muscle strenght...

You should look forward to the 4 weeks, it will proof to be a wise decision and I am looking forward to read your progress. On Monday my first real week begins and we have been thaught several exersizes now. It feels odd and painful but I notice my schoulderlump decreasing and my shoulders sticking out more even. Its gonna be a long week but I am confident it will be good.

Simon
13th January 2008, 04:30 PM
Am sorry but what load of rubbish.....................

A bit from there website

He cannot understand why Britain and America do not use the Katharina Schroth system. A lot of research has shown that rehabilitation does work.

I feel that this method of treatment should be the new way forward for treating all Scoliosis, whether large or small and that for anybody who wishes to avoid the trauma of an operation it is certainly worthwhile....

I WILL TELL YOU WHY AMERICA AND BRITAIN DONT USE THIS METHOD AS ITS A LOAD OF RUBBISH AS IF IT WASNT DONT YOU THINK THAT THE BIGGEST COUNTRY'S IN THE WORLD LIKE AMERICA AND THE UK WOULD OF STARTED USING THIS BY NOW......

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

AND HOW CAN YOU GET A INCREASE WHEN YOUR SPINE IS FUSED ITS IMPOSSIBLE

SORRY I HAD TO VENT MY ANGER

P.S YOUR NAME SAYS IT ALL YOUR IN DREAM WORLD

mark
13th January 2008, 04:57 PM
I think everyone is entitled to there own opinion and the true Schroth method does work for some and has been around for a long time. If we opened our minds more to other non conventional treatments then maybe we all wouldnt be uffering as we do. It would also be helpful if we didnt resort to personal name calling either just because we don't agree with one anothers point of view.

My opinion is go along wth whatever works for you

peace and love

mark

tonibunny
13th January 2008, 04:58 PM
Calm down Simon :squeeze: Sandman may be feeling straighter because of a change in the unfused portions of his spine, and because of a change in musculature. He is not fused all the way down, nor is his neck fused, so this is certainly possible. It is true though that the fused part of the spine, if fused solid, CANNOT be straightened with exercise; there is simply no way for the vertebrae to move.

Changing the musculature of your back can make quite a difference cosmetically - my back always looks massively different after I have steroid injections to relax muscles that are spasming - but this would not have any effect on a fused spine.

I believe that Schroth can probably help with pain and lung function (as most physical therapy will) but in order to prove that Schroth really does straighten a structural scoliosis curve, I would want to see actual x-rays (rather than photos of the outside of the body only) that show that the spine has straightened. I have yet to see any.

Anyway, good luck with your treatment Sandman.

Simon
13th January 2008, 05:05 PM
I Am not name calling mark

Whatever works for them .........

My opinion is that if it works why have we not got many clinics specializing in this kind of treatment for us sufferers in this country or America ......

The amount of specialists over here you would of thought that they would point you to the direction of Schroth clinics before they contemplate surgery...

I may be on my own with this subject but am not going to hide behind the facts and not care about false hope............

mark
13th January 2008, 05:13 PM
All i say is respect other peoples opinions

Its a well established form of treatment in Germany. Lots of people use it and get good results. Its not for everybody and yes cures of a certain degree do require surgery. But a lot of curves don't and the people using these forms of treatment are not necessarily using them to become straighter but are using them to overcome lung function problems and pain.

Your not on your own there are lot out there with the same opinion as you, i hold the view that if it requires surgery then ye surgery is the best option. But thats not the case for everyone. It is inconsequential the number of practitioners in this country or even the states.

jamielynn
13th January 2008, 05:31 PM
I think that everyone should be entilted to their own opinions...
Just because someones opinon doesn't match yours doesn't mean that they're wrong.

I beleive that If anyones scoliosis gets to the point where it NEEDS surgery, then that person SHOULD get the surgery :angel:

Simon
13th January 2008, 05:34 PM
As mark has said am not on my own there are lot out there with the same opinion as me...

And as i said Each to there own..........................

GillyG
13th January 2008, 05:35 PM
We have to be careful to let everyone have their say and opinion, but I also think we have a duty to not give false hope to our members. Anyone who is suffering chronic pain and loss of self esteem happens to be easy pickings for those who would put forward apparent 'cures' which don't involve surgery (but, interestingly enough DO involve you parting with a lot of money!)

Exercises can certainly improve posture and sometimes give pain relief, especially those designed to strengthen the core stability muscles which help support the spine. They cannot, however, improve the structural aspects of a scoliosis curve. This can only be achieved by surgery. Once a curve reaches a certain point it will begin to deteriorate more rapidly due to the effects of gravity on the asymmetrical spine.

It's a very personal decision whether or not to go down the alternative treatments route. In the early stages and with smallish curves, they may well be of some help. However, I would urge anyone who does so to make sure they are also regularly monitored by an orthopaedic spinal specialist. Only by comparing X-rays can anyone be absolutely certain whether or not their curve is progressing and at what rate.

Gilly xx

jamielynn
13th January 2008, 05:37 PM
I agree

Simon
13th January 2008, 05:37 PM
Thank you gilly

If they have the money and they find it works for them then fantastic....

Simon
13th January 2008, 05:40 PM
Thank you jamie lynn

I think i may of hit a nerve with the alternative treatment

Sorry but we all have our opinions on everythink in life..........

mark
13th January 2008, 05:50 PM
You haven't hit a nerve with alternative treatments. The only nerve hit was tone of your initial post.

Simon
13th January 2008, 05:51 PM
I give up ...............................................

tonibunny
13th January 2008, 05:54 PM
I also agree that if someone has a large curve (say, 50+ degrees) they should definitely have surgery. For others, who are in a position to *choose* if they have surgery or not, or who have small curves that will never warrant surgery, alternative therapies may well help with pain and improve posture.

What worries me most is when alternative therapists offer miracle cures which cost a huge amount of money, and take advantage of people who are terrified of surgery. There are some really unethical people out there who will deliberately exaggerate how dangerous surgery is, and will refer to medical literature that is decades out of date, just to scare people into opting for their expensive treatment instead. Some clinics send out info which goes on about the dangers of the Harrington Rod surgery (which hasn't been used for years), and state that post-op patients have to use wheelchairs for months (not true at all)! There are also a lot of downright quacks out there, such as Gary Young who invented "Raindrop Therapy" and Arthur Copes who invented the STARRS Copes brace, both of whom are proven fraudsters who aren't even real doctors.

Basically, if you decide to try an alternative treatment, DO YOUR RESEARCH - take a look on the web, find out info and see what others think, before you part with your cash.

GillyG
13th January 2008, 05:56 PM
Don't give up Simon, it's easy to feel frustrated when you feel people are being given false hope. All Mark means is that we have to be careful to respect everyone's opinions and I think your initial post perhaps didn't do that. I think the main thing people need to understand is that no form of alternative treatment can actually affect the structural curvature in scoliosis, but that it may well help with the symptoms.

tonibunny
13th January 2008, 06:01 PM
It's so easy to be madly frustrated Simon, so don't give up!! :-)

I get really frustrated by alternative therapists who claim miracles but refuse to provide x-rays showing actual improvement of scoliosis. They'll provide photos which show a change in musculature, but when you ask why the don't show x-rays they'll bleat about "not subjecting the patient to radiation" which is totally pathetic, as x-rays are extremely safe these days and are the ONLY way to accurately assess scoliosis.

*and breathe*

Sandman77
13th January 2008, 06:17 PM
Simon is your name? Im William...

I respect and value the fact you wish to protect people from false hope and wrong treatment. I myself did not care for Schroth till I met, read and saw what it can do to people whom puts their efforts into this... Yes even x-rays before and after weeks of Schrothing and it does indeed show improvement.

As Toni knows Im not fused all the way so my 2 curves which are not fused can still be straigthened other ways hell even with a new brace... That being said a 20 year old fusion does not mean its rock solid, a body detoriates over time when not taken care of. This includes people whom had surgery as well. I dont think there is a 100% treatment for Scoliosis just many ways to increase overall health and awareness. I know a person who had 54 curve, did bracing and Schroth all though docs wanted her to do surgery. She did not and her curve is now 18 or less...

I know a person who had the latest way of surgery and is still after 2 years recovering... Basically it is up to you to make out what is your way, its your scoliosis life...

As in the USA I know of 6 clinics in the USA performing Schroth and there are some in the UK as well and increasing every year. Schroth is a very old way of treating spinal diformities of all kind...

And the Healthcare pays 4 weeks of treatment every 4 years orso so anyone can try it its for all available... In fact the healtcare favourites this treatment as the record shows it helps many with spine problems...

Ask me in a few months how im doing and I can promise you I will tell the truth if it worked for me well or not...

sins
13th January 2008, 07:28 PM
If an adult scoliosis patient wants to undertake any alternative treatment, then I say good luck to them, they have nothing to lose but their hard earned money. It's a case of caveat emptor - buyer beware!And if perhaps they see some improvement in pain levels or in reduction of curvature then that's good.
However as someone who sees children developing massive curves because their parents have put their faith in alternative therapies,I feel it's important that people understand that exercises will NOT cure scoliosis.Giving false hope to desperate people is deplorable.
However there are a number of facts which have been established.
(A) Schroth clinic in germany is a reputable establishment who have publised credible results over many years.They have a bracing/therpay program which has helped a significant number of people.
(B) You cannot further straighten a fused spine.
© You cannot restore lung function which has been lost to scoliosis. Only preventing the deformity in the first instance will prevent loss of lunc capacity.
(D) Apart from a handful of people, B Zebra and another German lady and of course Erika Maude have testified to having a satisfactory result.
We have little or no first hand experience of patients with no other agenda to push, telling us about their experiences with various schroth based therapies.Until I've heard from independent patients then I refuse to accept any claim until it's backed by hard statistical evidence.
If sandman wishes to share his experiences of his therapy with us then that's good news for the scoliosis community.I'd encourage him to keep a diary and share his thoughts with the world, but please !!! Any claims of a treatment working needs to be backed by figures,such as lung capacity pre treatment and post treatment, curvature before and after and pain levels before and after.
Good luck William and I hope you get what you want from your treatment.
Sinead.

Simon
13th January 2008, 07:38 PM
I agree sins whole heartedly

Hi willam

I respect your view and your treatment that you wish to pursue ............

can you give me some figures/

i.e

age?

curves before treatment?

curves after treatment?

On the amount of people who have successfully reduced there scoliosis with this treatment and do you have any or does the centre were your having this treatment have any xrays to show the curve has been reduced.....

I await your findings with great interest............... and good luck

You also said that you know a person who had 54 curve, did bracing and Schroth all though docs wanted her to do surgery. She did not and her curve is now 18 or less...

That is a remarkable reduction is there any way we can have a disscusion with her somtime........................................

tonibunny
13th January 2008, 07:54 PM
Sadly here in the UK people have to pay privately for Schroth, whether they see one of the therapists here or go abroad. Maybe this will change in time, but for now it is very expensive.

Your fusion should be solid for the rest of your life William; mine is 22 years old and hasn't moved an inch. Have you been checked by a conventional scoliosis specialist recently?

As I said, people with larger curves shouldn't muck about - by all means try alternative treatments if you can afford it and have done your research on it, but be prepared to have surgery if your curves start to progress. People with smaller curves who are in the grey area where progression isn't inevitable (about 40-50 degrees) have the option to chose surgery or not. Some of these people will prefer the idea of having surgery, getting it out of the way, and then getting on with their lives without having to pay much thought to scoliosis ever again. Others will be terrified of the idea of surgery, and will be happy to do exercises every day for the rest of their lives. It's good that there are different options for different people :-)

Something that worries me is that people may be able to maintain their spines by doing Schroth whilst they are young, but what happens if they get pregnant or become ill and are unable to do the exercises? And, what happens when someone becomes too old and infirm? It is a lot more complex, and recovery is a lot longer, to do scoliosis surgery upon an old person. Any thoughts on this Sandman? I've put this question to a couple of people who run Schroth clinics, but they have failed to reply.

It is good to hear your experiences Sandman, thank you for sharing them.

Simon
13th January 2008, 08:06 PM
I have just found this piece of info from this website

http://www.zedpr.co.uk/scoliosis-sos/scoli...s-case-studies/ (http://www.zedpr.co.uk/scoliosis-sos/scoliosis-sos-case-studies/)

A four week course of treatment for Schroth treatment cost approximately £2,400.

caro
13th January 2008, 08:21 PM
ok - just wrote a really long reply to all this and my inetrnet connection went down & lost the whole lot. Grrrrr

Surely we should all be suppoting each other in whatvere choices we make as we all have this same very under researched condition.

In my case I have no choice that I can see. Its this or put up with the increasing pain I'm experiencing.

I will happily detial my experineces after my treatment but very much doubt that I'll have a whole lot of facts and figures. But am hoping to feel straighter, be in less pain, and maybe even rehain some of the 2 inches of height I have lost. Whether I'll be abl to satisfy the sceptics out there who want measurable proff I don't know.

caro
13th January 2008, 08:24 PM
Aplogies for all the typos in my message- - I wanted to post before losing my connection again!

I didn't write half as much as in my original reply!!

tonibunny
13th January 2008, 08:29 PM
Interestingly, if you do Schroth you are never allowed to do contact sports again :-( If you have surgery though, you are usually told that can play contact sports after a year post-op (or as soon as your fusion is definitely solid). I guess horse-riding would be out too - and we have loads of happy post-op horse riders here at SSO.

From the FAQ on Erika Maude's site:

"Did the treatment help to relieve your back pain?
I am fortunate in not having experienced back pain. I have to be careful and not lift heavy objects, and obviously certain activities that would put a strain on my back are out of the question e.g. contact sports and any activities that severely jar the spine."

Considering this, I am surprised that James is allowed to play squash (see the PR pages), because whacking a ball around a court doesn't half jar your thoracic spine.

tonibunny
13th January 2008, 08:32 PM
Caro, it's definitely right for you to have sought alternative help, as your curve was too small for the NHS to give you any solutions. Physical therapy will almost certainly help your pain, and I hope that you get the other results that you're hoping for, too :-)

caro
13th January 2008, 08:35 PM
Thanks Toni - I really do appreciate any positive comments and the way this thread was kicking off was beginning to get me down and even start to question my decision again! Not that I can change my mind cos I've had to pay a third of the months rental on the house! This is going to be one expensive summer holiday! :-)

sins
13th January 2008, 11:03 PM
Whether I'll be abl to satisfy the sceptics out there who want measurable proff I don't know.

Caro,
You don't have to satisfy any sceptics or cynics like myself.You only need to satisfy yourself.If you're happy with the outcome that's what really matters.
Secondly you've never made any claims that Scroth based therapies really work, all you've done is make a decision to undertake a course of therapy in the absence of any other treatment being made available to you.
However we have had claims that schroth works, primarily from therapists and from people who haven't done the course yet.I'm a scientist and I instinctively demand verifiable evidence. I don't want the membership of this site to be exploited by any overambitious claims, as I say particularly children who's parents are clutching at straws.
Please don't let any negative comments put you off your decision.If anyone is a suitable candidate for non surgical exercise based therapy, it's most definitely you.
This thread is not meant to demoralise you. Best of luck with your course and just remember to ask questions all the way and make sure you get plenty of feedback from your therapist.
Sins

GillyG
13th January 2008, 11:57 PM
Caro, I think you should gain some benefit from this therapy as it should strengthen your musculature and improve your posture, thereby hopefully reducing your level of pain. It won't, however, change the structure or possible future progression of your curve.

I too am a scientist and therefore need to see evidence to back any claims before I will accept them. It goes with the territory I'm afraid :P If you, or William, or anyone else for that matter would be prepared to post any X-rays you have had taken before starting the course of treatment, along with those taken after, it would help to prove once and for all whether the structural curve can be altered by this method. Until then, I remain convinced that any benefit will be cosmetic in nature, due to improved muscle tone, but that the structure will remain unaltered. This is the reason I think it's important to still be monitored by a specialist, so that any future progression can be picked up and surgery offered if it becomes necessary.

Simon
14th January 2008, 01:07 AM
well sade gilly

I would like the same.......

In your last post to us sandmam you said

"I'll have a whole lot of facts and figures"

If that the case please post them for not just me to read but other people that might be intretrestd in the Scroth based therapies.

Am am not trying to demoralizing you in any way i just hope you relise that this may not work for you and then were would you be............

As i said good luck with it...................

jamielynn
14th January 2008, 01:15 AM
Yeah nobodies trying to disrespect anyone we all just want facts :niceone:

Sandman77
14th January 2008, 05:03 PM
Darn, you gals and guys sure make my braincell spin. :)

I do not want to write anything not backed up with more info or x-rays. And I know its very hard to believe without seeing so I feel with you all. I was one of you before... ;)

I will ask around here and peek later see if I can find some X-Rays online. Will post all the facts I have about me when I have time etc.

Schroth isnt a cure like I said a way for some to increase their well beeing and decreasing curves and increasing lung volume. Lung volume being my main goal here, I am also getting a new brace, yikes...

A fusion can detoriate over time also parts not fused tend to crook on... My non lumbar region is crooking up why the brace as Schroth alone may not prevent this or build up muscles fast or good enough to work against it...

Id never wear a brace again without backing it up with Schroth only works for me together...

I have a woman aged 71 in my group shes Schroting but never had fusion. So also old people can do this and you MAY ride a horse thats allowed. Hell Im even gonna do it prolly on Sunday :) Part of exersize. :)

Bzebra if I remember correctly schrothed and braced herself down from 54 curve. .. I didnt believer it either but Ive met her in person, great gal.

So X-Rays and facts, will do my best...

tonibunny
15th January 2008, 12:24 AM
Great stuff William, I'll look forward to seeing your x-rays :niceone: Thanks for being so helpful.

Are you getting a brace that is approved by the Schroth clinic? It'd be good to see pictures of that too :-)

Have fun riding the horses! I am hoping to learn to do that this year :D

GillyG
15th January 2008, 12:26 AM
Thanks William, I for one would very much appreciate seeing before and after X-rays :D

mark
15th January 2008, 12:56 AM
Is it not the Cheneau Brace that is specifically used by Scroth

Amazed Jean
15th January 2008, 05:04 AM
Damn it would be nice to sit down and have a cup of cocoa? and discuss alternate treatments however, if it was working as well as touted we would all know a lot more about it.

Sandman77
15th January 2008, 03:35 PM
So far today was odd, had my spine gipsed for new brace, it is a supporting brace not a milwuakee I will get the name of it and pics too.

I think Schroth is darn hard to do, but if you consider the basics it does make sense. I read it cannot alone prevent a growing juvenile`s Scoliosis to stop but alongside with bracing is it is most efficient. And as an adult it can reduce your curves when done regularly...

Ok will try and get that info... Have found some and Bzebra I hope will come and back me up she is the expert of us two. :)

BZebra
15th January 2008, 08:33 PM
Hello all together!

I see I have already been mentioned in this thread. 8)
I am the webmaster of the German scoliosis support forum which can be found under www.skoliose-info-forum.de. I am writing there under the same pseudonym.

Since there have been questions about the Schroth method, I can show you my own photos and x-rays, which were taken before, during and after a combined treatment of Schroth and bracing (brace from Rahmouni in Stuttgart -> rahmouni.de).

http://www.skoliose-info-forum.de/files/bild-1-2-3_grey_opt.jpg

1.) 13 years old - 58°, before brace treatment and at the beginning of the first Schroth rehabilitation program
2.) 13 years old - before brace treatment, after 4 weeks Schroth rehabilitation program
3.) 14 years old - after one year of brace treatment (brace by Rahmouni in Stuttgart/Germany)

http://www.skoliose-info-forum.de/pics/BZ_91_91_04.jpg

1.) 13 years old - 58°, before brace treatment
2.) 13 years old - 18°, in brace
3.) 25 years old - 38°, two years after complete brace weaning

I've been wearing my brace about 21 hours a day for 5 years, after that just during night for another five years. From 13 to 18 I have stayed 6 times, each time for a period of six weeks, in the Katharina-Schroth-Clinic in Germany.

If you want to have more information about Schroth, especially documented results with photos and x-rays, you should try these two books:

1.) http://www.amazon.de/Best-Practice-Conserv...00329444&sr=8-2 (http://www.amazon.de/Best-Practice-Conservative-Scoliosis-Care/dp/3790509418/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200329444&sr=8-2)

2.) http://www.amazon.com/Three-Dimensional-Sc...s/dp/3833481382 (http://www.amazon.com/Three-Dimensional-Scoliosis-Orthopedic-physiotherapeutic-deformities/dp/3833481382) (or see http://us.bookbutler.com/do/bookCompare?se...earchIn=us&zip= (http://us.bookbutler.com/do/bookCompare?searchFor=3833481382&amountIn=usd&shipTo=us&searchIn=us&zip=) )

The second book contains a lot of pictures with quite fascinating results which were achieved during Schroth rehabilitation programs and mostly without additional bracing.

It should be mentioned that Schroth, as a physiotherapeutic method, can only straighten your spine to a certain degree. It can prevent progression for children with very small curves (even straighten the spine completely there) and for adults. However, progressive curves during puberty from 20 degrees on must be additionally treated with a very well correcting brace.

If the brace doesn't correct enough, which unfortunately is still the case for 80% of all braces produced in Germany (probably a lot more in the U.S. or GB), the treatment will fail! Schroth on its own is not sufficient in those cases. So it is very important that the quality of the brace is verified and, given the high percentage of low quality bracing, you cannot trust anybody who claims to be a specialist in this area, you will have to control that yourself, no matter where you get it from.

Sandman77
15th January 2008, 08:46 PM
Thanks BZebra my hero :)

Simon
15th January 2008, 08:49 PM
Hi
Could you tell me what the time frame is between your pics
You have said that you had 58 degree curve at 13 yrs old and went down to 18 degree curve at 13 years old also.........
Can you tell me how many mths that was over...

Many thanks

simon

BZebra
15th January 2008, 09:10 PM
The 18 degrees are IN BRACE!

The x-ray in the middle is the control x-ray you need to take in order to see how well the brace corrects.

To make sure that no further progression occurs, you need at least 50% correction in brace of the initial degree. With a correction of 50%, however, you may not expect any lasting reduction of the curvature after brace weaning, just a stop of progression.

In my case the initial correction of the brace was 69% (the average correction of German braces is just 12%; that is why most of the braces don’t work at all).

The second x-ray of 18 degrees was taken 4 weeks after the first one of 58 degrees (the time needed for brace production), but that doesn't really matter here since the first one is without brace and the second one in brace. No miraculous reduction of the curvature will have taken place in the meantime!

A correction purely based on Schroth (within 4 weeks rehabilitation program) is only displayed between the first two photos.

Simon
15th January 2008, 09:15 PM
Its a very good correction even with a brace at a very short space of time....

BZebra
15th January 2008, 09:25 PM
This "very short space of time" was actually just one hour! The x-ray in brace was taken one hour after the brace was handed over to me.

So what you can see in this x-ray is really only the correcting effect of the brace. The same thing happens as quickly during surgery: the spine is bend by force into the right position.

Simon
15th January 2008, 09:29 PM
One hour and the correction is that much.................

ummmmmmmmm

Well i guess am still sceptical even more so now..........

Anyway i hope this treatment works for a lot of sufferers out there......

Thanks for your imput

BZebra
15th January 2008, 09:38 PM
There are many patients with this sort of brace (it is a chêneau-like brace) who have the same or even better (so called) primary corrections in brace:

We've made a list of our forum members who have posted their data, some of them with x-rays: http://www.skoliose-info-forum.de/viewtopic.php?t=957

But now we are not talking about Schroth any more. For photos and x-ray which show corrections exclusively achieved by Schroth physiotherapy you have to get the second book I mentioned.

Simon
15th January 2008, 09:39 PM
Sorry but i just clicked on your threads and you are also trying to sell books for this treatment on this forum.

I do not think this is appropriate not only are you giving people false hope but also trying to sell your books on here.

This is not a book store its a forum forum for people to give each other support.............

I also dont speak or can understand german that thread is in your language......

BZebra
15th January 2008, 09:54 PM
:D

German is very much like English. If you don't know a word, just enter it here: http://www.dict.cc/

It is also not possible to get money from book sales over other peoples websites. For that you need Amazon Ref-links which only work on your own site.

You were asking for photos and x-rays which show the results of Schroth. This is the only publication about Schroth which contains exemplary results.

Unfortunatly it's copyrighted, so I can't just scan it in, besides only being in posession of the German version, which probably won't please you.

Simon
15th January 2008, 10:02 PM
No problem

We all have our own opiounis on treatment and i respect yours...........

As regards the reading of the thread you have posted you can not expect us to put in every word into english as there is prob over 2000 words in your language its just not possible........

With regard to not making money why advertise your book with suppliers if you can not make money

BZebra
15th January 2008, 10:15 PM
I don't think I did express any opinions (except for German not being too difficult to understand ;)).

These are just the results of non-surgical treatments, which worked.

What I hope I have made clear is that there is a big difference in quality between the standard treatment you recieve, be it in Germany or anywhere else in the world, and what actually leads to sucess (12% correction vs. more than 50% which are required...).

OFF-TOPIC
========

Do you now that joke?

What do you call someone who speaks three languages? - Trilingual.
And someone who speaks two languages? - Bilingual.
And someone who speaks just one language? - An American.

Words of the table:

Benutzername = username
Ausgangsgradz. = initial degree (before bracing)
Im Korsett = in brace
Erstversorgung = here: age of the patient at start of brace treatment
Primärkorrektur (% von Ausg.): primary correction in % from initial degree
Sonstiges: other comments
Quelle: source
Jahre: years
Überkorr.: "overcorrection" (means that the spine goes in brace in the other direction)

That is all you need to understand the table.

mark
15th January 2008, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by BZebra@Jan 15 2008, 08:54 PM
:D



You were asking for photos and x-rays which show the results of Schroth. This is the only publication about Schroth which contains exemplary results.


Hi BZebra

I read with interest your posts and i am pretty apeathetic when it comes to treatment choices. So i don't hae an agenda here. My only concern is people get the treatment they deserve whether that be surgical or non surgical

I am very interested though to read the highligted comment. Shouldn't we be publishing both the successful treatments along with those that are not so successful so we give the prospective patient all the facts and not just the success stories

I also read your comments on bracing.

One could presume by your comments that you are blaming the brace rather than the treatment for those failure rates.

Do you get the brace through Schroth or do you purchase it seperatly

If so do you get instruction on wearing and putting on the brace

One final point you seem a very disciplined person, i would suggest that it wold be very difficult to keep someone from age 13 to 18 in a brace 23 hours a day

Don't take my comments as negative i am very interested to learn of other forms of treatment

thanks for reading

mark

Simon
15th January 2008, 10:17 PM
Thats a bit bang out of order
The joke and the way you think german is not to difficult to understand
It is very difficult to understand if you dont speak the language or been ever taught it at school...........

mark
15th January 2008, 10:19 PM
My apologies 21 hours a day

BZebra
15th January 2008, 10:56 PM
I am very interested though to read the highligted comment.* Shouldn't we be publishing both the successful treatments along with those that are not so successful so we give the prospective patient all the facts and not just the success stories
This is a textbook designed to teach the method (though unfortunately you cannot learn it on your own because it is too complicated, you need support from a trained Schroth therapist).

What you mean, I think, is a medical study about Schroth. Here is one for example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1615566...Pubmed_RVDocSum (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16155663?ordinalpos=17&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)


One could presume by your comments that you are blaming the brace rather than the treatment for those failure rates.
By "the treatment" you mean that a lot of people don't wear their braces?

Well, if they were wearing them as they should, which many of patients actually do if they want to avoid surgery, it still wouldn't help them much because of insufficient brace corrections in most cases. Hence the general opinion amongst doctors that bracing is ineffective; it has its reason.


Do you get the brace through Schroth or do you purchase it separately

If so do you get instruction on wearing and putting on the brace.
You can get a brace directly from the Schroth clinic or you can get one from somewhere else. In all the cases one of the most crucial things of the Schroth programme is to make sure that you get an effective brace should you need one. The quality is controlled by the clinic. They recommend you places to go in order to get a good one. You are also being schooled how to wear it, but more importantly you are being motivated and the consequences of not wearing the brace are made clear to the patients.


One final point you seem a very disciplined person, i would suggest that it wold be very difficult to keep someone from age 13 to 18 in a brace 23 hours a day
With 58° at age 13 you have the choice between either getting surgery right away or wearing your brace. In these cases it is the patients decision and nobody needs "to keep you" in brace.

Before getting my brace I had a progression from 32° to 58° within 9 months. You don't need to be a fortune teller to foresee what will happen if you neither get a surgery nor wear your brace. So motivation was not the problem.


With regard to not making money why advertise your book with suppliers if you can not make money
We do of course get money through sales at Amazon generated by our website. Our webspace is financed this way. After all, the money has to come from somewhere. We promote every book which is of interest for scoliosis and kyphosis patients and every other article sold by Amazon. ;-)

tonibunny
15th January 2008, 11:19 PM
Welcome to SSO Bzebra! :welcome2:

It is extremely good to see some x-rays! I don't think it's possible to properly assess scoliosis without them, yet some Schroth clinics don't do them.

I assume you were treated at the German clinic that Sandman attended?

There is also some differences between the clinics, particularly regarding bracing; at least one clinic does not offer this and tells patients that if they undertake their Schroth programme they will never need to wear a brace. For a lot of adolescents, it is this that sways their decision to try Schroth therapy. From what you're saying though, the German clinic sees bracing as an integral part of the programme - is this correct?

Do you know if the exercises would be possible for a lady who is in the late stages of pregnancy? And, are they possible for wheelchair users? Is there any official guidance on what to do if you become too ill or infirm to do your exercises?

Many thanks for your input here :-)

Toni

mark
15th January 2008, 11:37 PM
r.e second quote

No i meant are blaming the brace, its maker and the fit of said brace for failure rather than the treatment

getting an adolescent as you may read from posts on this site to wear a brace for 21 hours a day is very traumatic for both the wearer and the parent. Things are not as black and white as you appear to be making out.

Try not to sound so condescending in your replies please

titch
15th January 2008, 11:42 PM
Hey chaps, just want to say lets try not to get each other's hackles up. ok? We're all here to help each other :-)

BZebra
15th January 2008, 11:57 PM
I assume you were treated at the German clinic that Sandman attended?
No, Sandman is here www.skoliose.eu (because they are attached to a clinic for pulmonary problems) and I was there www.skoliose.com. The first one is an off-spring of the original clinic in Bad Sobernheim.


I don't think it's possible to properly assess scoliosis without them, yet some Schroth clinics don't do them.
No, actually you don't need the x-rays for your exercises. They are hardly being used for this purpose. Schroth mostly works with mirrors and training your posture.

The x-rays are necessary to see if there was a progression, if it is likely that there will be one or if anything else is amiss.


There is also some differences between the clinics, particularly regarding bracing; at least one clinic does not offer this and tells patients that if they undertake their Schroth programme they will never need to wear a brace. For a lot of adolescents, it is this that sways their decision to try Schroth therapy. From what you're saying though, the German clinic sees bracing as an integral part of the programme - is this correct??
This is true if you still have less than 20 degrees or if you are nearly fully grown with only a moderate scoliosis and you continue to do your 30 minutes home program (nearly) each day. In most cases this should be enough to avoid further progression and bracing.

Otherwise both German clinics and also the clinic in Barcelona recommend additional bracing.


Do you know if the exercises would be possible for a lady who is in the late stages of pregnancy?
You cannot take part at a rehabilitation program in the first and last trimester of pregnancy. It is however possible to do your home exercises during the hole pregnancy. The risky time for a progression is however after having given birth. During the pregnancy the spine is stabilised due to the space the baby needs, so that directly after pregnancy a lumbar or thoracolumbar curve can have improved a few degrees.


And, are they possible for wheelchair users?
There are many exercises you can do in a sitting position. There are also wheelchair drivers in the clinics.


Is there any official guidance on what to do if you become too ill or infirm to do your exercises?
In this case you would be bedridden and your scoliosis would not progress much anyways. Otherwise the exercises are not very difficult and can be done at any age.

Simon
16th January 2008, 12:02 AM
Is there any official guidance on what to do if you become too ill or infirm to do your exercises?

In this case you would be bedridden and your scoliosis would not progress much anyways. Otherwise the exercises are not very difficult and can be done at any age.

YOU WOULD BE BEDRIDDEN
HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE ILL OR INFIRM BE BEDRIDDEN
AAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR TOATAL RUBBISH THERE IS MANY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD THAT ARE ILL OR INFIRM AND STILL DOING MANY MANY THINGS THAT WE ALL DO...........

******BREATHE******

GillyG
16th January 2008, 12:06 AM
Many thanks for posting the X-rays BZebra! I think my main comment on all this is that any exercise/bracing programme seems to work well with very small curves, but once the curve has begun to progress, they only slow down the progression - which is a good thing, obviously - but ultimately, many of the patients will need surgery or will suffer the consequences of having left it too late, such as our very own Amazed Jean, whose pulmonary function now means surgery is no longer an option. I consider myself extremely lucky to have been 'caught' in time.

Simon
16th January 2008, 12:11 AM
Sorry guys

tonibunny
16th January 2008, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by BZebra@Jan 15 2008, 10:57 PM


I don't think it's possible to properly assess scoliosis without them, yet some Schroth clinics don't do them.
No, actually you don't need the x-rays for your exercises. They are hardly being used for this purpose. Schroth mostly works with mirrors and training your posture.

The x-rays are necessary to see if there was a progression, if it is likely that there will be one or if anything else is amiss.


I understand that you wouldn't need to have x-rays in order to do the actual exercises, but surely x-rays would be necessary to assess the size of the curvature prior to beginning the Schroth programme, and to see how much the curve has improved following it?

I don't believe it is possible to properly assess curve progression or correction without any x-rays at all.

There are Schroth clinics that say that NO-ONE need ever wear a brace if they undertake their programme, regardless of their age or the size of their curve. With the clinics saying different things, it makes it difficult for a prospective patient to understand what Schroth therapy actually entails :-( It would be good to clear up what the "official" treatment involves, if there is one.

BZebra
16th January 2008, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by mark@Jan 15 2008, 10:37 PM
r.e second quote

No i meant are blaming the brace, its maker and the fit of said brace for failure rather than the treatment

getting an adolescent as you may read from posts on this site to wear a brace for 21 hours a day is very traumatic for both the wearer and the parent. Things are not as black and white as you appear to be making out.

Try not to sound so condescending in your replies please

No i meant are blaming the brace, its maker and the fit of said brace for failure rather than the treatment
I guess that means yes, since the treatment itself, the bracing, can work very well if the brace fulfils certain standards of quality. Bracing, if done correctly, is the most effective non-surgical treatment with which you can prevent progression, reduce the curvature or even straighten the spine nearly completely so that technically you don't have scoliosis any more (given of course that you are still young enough and your curvature is not too strong).


getting an adolescent as you may read from posts on this site to wear a brace for 21 hours a day is very traumatic for both the wearer and the parent.
Yes, I know that. The problem is (or should not be) the brace but the fact that the patient does not (really) want to wear it.

As a parent you can try to explain, you can try to motivate, you can try to give advise on how to tackle certain issues like clothing, self-confidence, how to deal with classmates and so on. Your biggest problem with all this is probably that you don't have any personal experience. I on the other hand would probably less likely fail than you would because I have done it myself.

That is also one of the benefits the Schroth clinics offer to their patients. You meet many others there who wear braces and they can give you the best advice and they are the best examples. That is also where I got al the tips I needed and the confidence that I can do it just like them.

In the end it comes always down to one thing: you have to want it, otherwise it will either get a traumatic experience or the brace is just not worn.

BZebra
16th January 2008, 12:44 AM
YOU WOULD BE BEDRIDDEN
HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE ILL OR INFIRM BE BEDRIDDEN
AAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR TOATAL RUBBISH THERE IS MANY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD THAT ARE ILL OR INFIRM AND STILL DOING MANY MANY THINGS THAT WE ALL DO...........
Simon, you are really a banger! :kiss:

It means that if someone is too ill to do their Schroth exercises, he or she would also be so ill that he or she would be bedridden!

Understood now?

Simon
16th January 2008, 12:50 AM
What in words in a banger

tonibunny
16th January 2008, 12:56 AM
I guess Simon is wondering what would happen if someone becomes old and frail, and unable to move much, but without being bedridden. I'm thinking of people like my grandmother, who spent the last years of her life sitting up in a chair all day; she could barely walk, and there is no way she could have done any sort of exercises.

If she had had severe scoliosis and was unable to maintain a correction because she couldn't do her Schroth exercises, her quality of life could easily have been compromised further as her scoliosis deteriorated. Surgery would be significantly more risky for someone of her age.

Perhaps bracing would be prescribed in a situation like this though?

BZebra
16th January 2008, 01:09 AM
but surely x-rays would be necessary to assess the size of the curvature prior to beginning the Schroth programme, and to see how much the curve has improved following it?
Your height is taken as one parameter and in the German clinics there is a formetric measurement before and after the treatment. Looks like this:

http://skoliose-info-forum.de/pics/visualspine_animation.gif

The number of x-rays is generally kept at a minimum since it can cause breast cancer. However, if you are interested in knowing your exact degrees before and after treatment, you can get yourself x-rayed. They are glad for every guinea pig who doesn't mind the radiation and who lets them publish the results.


There are Schroth clinics that say that NO-ONE need ever wear a brace if they undertake their programme, regardless of their age or the size of their curve.
How many clinics are there? To my knowledge there are only four: two in Germany, one in Barcelona and one in GB.

jamielynn
16th January 2008, 01:11 AM
Yeah, ( buting in now lol)
I think that the risk for an elderly person to go through a major scoliosis surgery wouldn't be the best idea... I think maybe they would do some kind of bracing possibly??
I don't think that they should be bedridden for the rest of their life though, they would still rather be in a chair, than a bed any day, i think... i know that If it were me I would rather be in a chair then in a bed

mark
16th January 2008, 01:14 AM
In response to your paragraph in which you intimate you would succeed where i would fail. I do not grasp your point. You don't know me, you don't know the size of my curves and you don't know anything at all about my life.

I fail to understand your rational for posting that paragraph could you please enlighten me.

BZebra
16th January 2008, 01:18 AM
Mark, from what you wrote I just assumed that you are a father of a scoliosis patient. I haven't read through your posts, so my presumption was just wrong there.

mark
16th January 2008, 01:20 AM
Have a look in the kyphosis room at pictures of me

Thats me

Simon
16th January 2008, 01:20 AM
Am give in with this topic
Am not well up on many methods within the whole of sso
But this topic has really hurt and frustrated me
My concerns are
Its not a book club to sell books or other material.

This is a support group to give people as much infomation on everything about scollosis /kyphosis and general topics of interest to other users...

Am sorry i sound a bit upset tonight and sorry for posting unexceptionable comments.

They are not in anyway of disrespecting people treatment and also i dont have to knowlage to carry on posting anymore ..........

Take Care and mark am robbing this line of you

\love peace and harmony to you all

I will praye for sso tonight...........


May God bless you and help you deal with the pain. My Prayers are with you to get the help you need with the pain. I can sure sympathize with you. I sure have had my share of pain in the last year. I hope and pray that you can find the help you need to get your problem solved. And I will keep you in my prayers Keep me informed on how you are doing. And may God bless you.

tonibunny
16th January 2008, 01:23 AM
Without x-rays, how is it possible to determine if someone has congenital scoliosis rather than idiopathic? We have had cases here at SSO where adults have presented with scoliosis which has only just been diagnosed, and it turns out that they have congenital vertebral anomalies that caused it. In such cases, no amount of bracing or exercise can help correct them.

There are Schroth clinics in the US as well, but I don't know much about those. It is the GB clinic that told people that bracing was not necessary; I don't know if they have changed their stance on this since then.

Thanks for being so patient with all our questions BZebra, it is very much appreciated! :-) If we seem cynical or overly cautious about Schroth it is only because we have been confused about it for a long time. The GB and German clinics seem to be at odds and to give differing advice, and we've never had an actual patient sign up before.

mark
16th January 2008, 01:23 AM
I wouldn't presume to know your life story but from what i have seen of the few posts you have made you have been successful in reducing your curves which i fully applaud. Some of us though were less successful in the treatment we recieved for what ever reason. If i had been braced early i might not look like i look now, if i had surgery i certainly wouldnt look like i look now.

jamielynn
16th January 2008, 01:28 AM
I'm in the US and I haven't heard anything about the Schroth Method until now.. I'm still a bit confused on what it really is, how it works, and what the outcome of this method is...

BZebra
16th January 2008, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by tonibunny@Jan 16 2008, 12:23 AM
Without x-rays, how is it possible to determine if someone has congenital scoliosis rather than idiopathic? We have had cases here at SSO where adults have presented with scoliosis which has only just been diagnosed, and it turns out that they have congenital vertebral anomalies that caused it. In such cases, no amount of bracing or exercise can help correct them.

There are Schroth clinics in the US as well, but I don't know much about those. It is the GB clinic that told people that bracing was not necessary; I don't know if they have changed their stance on this since then.

Thanks for being so patient with all our questions BZebra, it is very much appreciated! If we seem cynical or overly cautious about Schroth it is only because we have been confused about it for a long time.

Without x-rays, how is it possible to determine if someone has congenital scoliosis rather than idiopathic? We have had cases here at SSO where adults have presented with scoliosis which has only just been diagnosed, and it turns out that they have congenital vertebral anomalies that caused it. In such cases, no amount of bracing or exercise can help correct them.
At least one initial x-ray is always recommendable. You might have something more severe than just scoliosis.

But as you can see with Sandman, being fused - which would be kind of similar to having a congenital scoliosis - does not necessarily prevent Schroth from being beneficial. The least you can always do is to bring your ribs into a better position and to give your lungs more space to breathe by widening the sunken in areas of your chest and mobilising your ribs.


If i had been braced early i might not look like i look now, if i had surgery i certainly wouldnt look like i look now.
You might not even have had the chance to get an effective brace. Depending on where you live they are hard to come by and really effective bracing (apart from the old Milwaukee brace) only exists for 20 years now. So I guess no need for you to cry over spilled milk in the bracing department, Mark.

tonibunny
16th January 2008, 01:40 AM
I see what you mean about congenital scoliosis being like having a fusion: it wouldn't be possible to achieve a correction, but it could help with breathing issues. That does sound sensible.

I must go to bed now, but I hope we can talk more tomorrow :-)

Toni

sins
16th January 2008, 12:39 PM
Hi BZebra and welcome,
I haven't had a chance to completely read all that you have posted but it's very interesting and informative.Thank you for taking the time to share all this with us.You have some very useful information in there.
I was wondering if we could maybe split this topic and start a new one with the information that you've given?It might be good to have all that you've said as a thread for anyone considering Schroth and perhaps if we can gather information from yourself, Sandman and anyone else who has done the therpay?
Sinead.

Sandman77
16th January 2008, 03:05 PM
Im at it now... Thanks Bzebra you are my hero and inspiration. :)

hugs

jamielynn
18th January 2008, 01:53 AM
Just curious Sandmann...
What does your sig mean??

GloomCookie
18th January 2008, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by jamielynn@Jan 18 2008, 12:53 AM
Just curious Sandmann...
What does your sig mean??
You ever read any Neil Gaiman comics, Jamielynn? It's a quote from Morpheus/the Sandman who's Dream in the comics.

Sandman77
19th January 2008, 03:34 PM
Yup I even got a Tattoo of "my Sandman"... :)

I went wall climbing yesterday was awesome and addicting and hard work!!! But I got at the top twice!!! :)
Horse Riding tomorrow and I got my stay expanded for a week... :)

But people here want hard facts on Schroth here is one:
A Lady at my diningtable has after 2 1/2 Work of Schrothing with a Skoliosis curve of 32 and Kyphoscoliosis curves of 58 and 61 gained 2 centimer of height!!! 2 CM!!! Even her arms are 2 CM longer... Darn good work on her!!!

Inspiring to say the least...

mark
22nd January 2008, 07:31 PM
Thats a good result

I hope she can maintain it and go on to grow some more

mark

tonibunny
22nd January 2008, 08:24 PM
That sounds good Sandman, but I don't really understand how her arms could grow 2cm? Bzebra, have you heard of this happening?

Sandman77
23rd January 2008, 03:58 PM
The shoulders are also strechted Toni, she basically regained lost height due to curves...

Sitting next to her she regained 1 cm so far too and it looks like Ive regained 4 cm... Will confirm/decline this when I can as I cant really say Ive done so im still 151 cm tall was accordingly 147,5 cm when I came here...

Whats intresting Mark a older man with severe kyhoscoliosis is also doing very good, so I believe in you and that there are ways for you to improve your state, just have faith. :)

Ive requsted info on that Kurbin Brace in english, mine aint due cause im special case might not get it till after im way gone from here...

Seeing doc tomorrow thursday that is...

caro
23rd January 2008, 07:57 PM
wow, that sounds very encouraging but agree with Toni about the arms - what has she been doing?!

Amazed Jean
23rd January 2008, 08:17 PM
Arms growing? I find that difficult to beleive. I just don't see how that would be possible. Arm span might increase if the spine is loosened but actually lengthening of arms sounds miraculous.

Sandman77
23rd January 2008, 11:03 PM
Nono, didnt grow... Regained original lenght due to the fact the muscles are loosened up etc.

Amazed Jean
23rd January 2008, 11:53 PM
OK I get that happening. I was ready for the miracle squad to go there and sign me up for the next miracle. (Well, a girl can hope can't she?)

Sandman77
25th January 2008, 11:17 PM
here is the homepage of Schroth it has a english version explain and shows very well the effects of its treatment...

http://www.schroth-skoliosebehandlung.de/

Sandman77
28th January 2008, 05:32 PM
http://www.schroth-skoliosebehandlung.de/op_eng.pdf

link to why Schroth can also be good for surgerically treated patients as well in english...