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Liv
23rd July 2004, 09:48 PM
I saw a lumbar puncture today on a 65-year old woman with a suspected meningitis (one of the privileges of being a med student) and I was thinking: What will they do if I ever need a spinal tap!?! :-?

"Maximum flexion of the lumbar spine is important to widen the lumbar interspinous spaces"

I'm fused from T3 to L2, and I can't bend my back enough forward to make the intervertebral L3-L4 space bigger so that they can put that HUGE needle safely into my spine. :woe:

http://www.fact-index.com/l/lu/lumbar_puncture.html

Any thoughts? :roll:

sins
23rd July 2004, 10:07 PM
There was one girl on another site where I used to post who had a lumbar puncture when she developed meningitis as a result of an infection after scoliosis surgery so I assume it can be done by an experienced practitioner.

Liv
23rd July 2004, 10:16 PM
Do you remember her levels of fusion? It's the same procedure as an epidural... It's just bothering me! :-(

Little~shedevil~dee
23rd July 2004, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by Liv@Jul 23 2004, 08:16 PM
Do you remember her levels of fusion? It's the same procedure as an epidural... It's just bothering me! :-(
hi i just read the link you gave liv and it does sound like what they did to me when they gave me my epidural dont know if this is any help to you

Liv
23rd July 2004, 11:39 PM
Yes, it's the same procedure. But you didn't had a scoliosis surgery..

Little~shedevil~dee
23rd July 2004, 11:47 PM
sorry about that i didnt think
i dont know if i am coming or going for some reason tonight lol :nutter:

Kayla
24th July 2004, 01:12 AM
I dont remember if I had a lumbar puncture after my fusion I have had dozens before but after???? but they can put you to sleep and bend you themselves if worse comes to worse they did that with me a few times

Joy
24th July 2004, 01:55 AM
*shudders* The very thought of anything sharp in my back creeps me out.

Liv, I think they could do it if they had to.

Liv
24th July 2004, 10:44 AM
It's probably more difficult to do it on a curved lumbar spine too. Do you have a lumbar curve, Dee?

Thanks Kayla, Joy.. You know what, I'm just gonna ask it to one of the doctors next week! :-) I shouldn't be embarrased to talk about it. We're there to learn anyway! ;-)

Carly
24th July 2004, 10:52 PM
Liv, you are becoming a doctor?

Jonny
25th July 2004, 12:01 AM
The only thing I can say is that when my mum (curvy, not fused) was having her epidural just before I was born (caesarian, extended breech :bounce: ), the student or whoever who tried to put the needle in repeatedly failed miserably. But when the consultant came along he put it straight in first time. Sorry doesn't really answer your question.

Liv
25th July 2004, 08:30 AM
Thanks, Jonny :-) Any kind of information is welcome! Bloody med students ;-)

Originally posted by Carly
Liv, you are becoming a doctor?
Um, yeah... 3 years to go (hopefully)!

Little~shedevil~dee
25th July 2004, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by Liv@Jul 24 2004, 08:44 AM
It's probably more difficult to do it on a curved lumbar spine too. Do you have a lumbar curve, Dee?

Thanks Kayla, Joy.. You know what, I'm just gonna ask it to one of the doctors next week! :-) I shouldn't be embarrased to talk about it. We're there to learn anyway! ;-)
i dont realy know my doctor hasnt realy told me any thing :cry:
i dont know what curve or what size it is
infact i am realy confuzzed
all my doctor has said to me so far is that i have go scoliosis
like i said before i hate my doctor

Liv
25th July 2004, 05:28 PM
Aww Dee. I'm sorry. No one deserves to be treated like that! :-(

I talked to a doctor about my "concerns" today, and she thinks it would be possible to do but tricky. But she's an oncologist, so not really a LP expert.. Maybe I should ask a neurologist. :-)

sins
25th July 2004, 05:49 PM
or an anaesthetist.

Little~shedevil~dee
25th July 2004, 06:23 PM
i realy want to change doctors but i just dont know how to go about finding one ect

Kayla
25th July 2004, 08:22 PM
do you think your gonna need a lumbar puncture Liv?

Liv
25th July 2004, 08:24 PM
Haha, no Kayal. But I'm just wondering in case I need one! I know I'm a little :nutter:

mark
26th July 2004, 02:20 PM
My brother had a lumber puncture when he had some neuro problems the doc took 4 attempts to get the right spot in the spine

He was in so much pain my mother nearly withdrew the needle from him ans stuck it in his back. By all accounts talking to him afterwards the pain so intense he nearly passed out each time the jerk tried to put the needle in.

To cap it all off he also said that the lumber puncture was a waste of time as it did not give the Drs any clue as to what was wrong with him or any kind of relief.

llb
28th July 2004, 03:49 AM
A needle for an epidural goes in between L3 and L4?

So, being fused to L4, does that mean i'll never be able to get an epidural?

Kayla
28th July 2004, 04:15 AM
no I bet they have some way of doing they would probably put you in a ct to see what they are doing or put you to sleep so they can move you yourself or someting

BarmyArmy
28th July 2004, 04:20 AM
I've never had surgery but there's no way I would be happy if I needed a spinal tap. I hate needles as it is without one being jabbed in my spine urghhhhhhhh just the thought makes me go all quesy :ph34r: . I can't even watch actors doing them on programmes like ER. I hope I never need one :oops: :oops:

Carly
28th July 2004, 04:41 AM
When you have a baby though, you get an epideral which goes into your spine.... AAAHHHh which pain to choose?!?! LOL

BarmyArmy
28th July 2004, 04:45 AM
That's another reason why I'm not looking forward to childbirth Carly :(


Edited to point out that I'm not pregnant, just a bit broody and concerned about how I'll cope with being pregnant in the future. :D

Liv
28th July 2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by llb@Jul 28 2004, 02:49 AM
A needle for an epidural goes in between L3 and L4?

So, being fused to L4, does that mean i'll never be able to get an epidural?
Usually between L3-L4, but L2-L3 or L4-L5 is also possible.

I saw another lumbar puncture today. This patients back wasn't very bended forward so I was happy to see that they were able to bring the needle in! After 5 or 6 times trying though... :roll:

sins
28th July 2004, 04:26 PM
I think my epidural was attempted above the sacro-iliac joint.Being only fused to L1 it still didn't work...........
Had to say it was absolutely pain free....I had a local anaesthetic first and wasn't aware of anything going on when the needle was being inserted.There was a lady in the Maternity hospital with me who was fused to L4 and had obvious flatback and had a successful epidural.So you just don't know........the anaesthetist said if he'd had my x rays he might have had a better chance of success...so I reckon keep them for the Labour ward ladies :D

Jonny
28th July 2004, 04:32 PM
Just remembered something - the anaesthetist offered me the choice between a PCA machine and an epidural as pain relief after surgery. This is after anterior fusion (and maybe after the posterior too) down to L3. I went for the PCA because I like to be able to feel my legs, but with hindsight, knowing the pain after the posterior, I'd have gone for the epidural.

Kayla
29th July 2004, 08:32 PM
I like watching on TV shows when women get their epidurals and they are liek in love with the anesthesiologist SP??? I dont know its funny to see their reactions

Carly
1st August 2004, 08:34 PM
I agree Kayla. My mom who is a labour and delivery nurse says her job is so much easier when the woman has an epdiural... happens alot though these days. I recall her saying it is like 95%, but I am not totally sure. It is very high though here!

Joy
2nd August 2004, 08:49 PM
Liv, how old are you again? And how are you paying for med school, if you don't mind me asking? Are there scholarships for med students? THough I suppose it's not hte same system here. I'm not worried about undergrad, but I worry about paying for med school. I do't want to go into too much debt...

My mom never used any drugs at all when she had me. She didn't let me eat flavoured yogurt either, or pop or much candy for a long time. On my fourth birthday, the big treat was lemonade and animal crackers.

Liv
2nd August 2004, 09:01 PM
I turned 21 in April. But I started med school when I was 17. It's not extremely expensive to study here. Entrance money costs 500 Euro (800 Canadian dollars), my student room costs 175 Euro (280 CAD) a month, add 400 Euro (640 CAD) for books and material and I cost my mum 3000 Euro (1720 CAD) each year... Gosh, what am I doing to my poor mum??? :-o

Kayla
2nd August 2004, 09:16 PM
lemonade and animal crackers were your big treat? lol do you eat alot of sweets now?

Joy
3rd August 2004, 06:47 PM
That's cheap.. For med school I would probably be paying at least 10,000 a year - 6,400 in tuition and 4,000 in program fees- plus books and living expenses. Unless some rich company wants to sponsor me, I don't see how I'll do it without taking out a loan. Undergrad tuition is about 4,000 a year by itself. It's a really big issue here. A lot of people just can't afford university. When my mom went, she payed 800 dollars a year tuition. There's lots of scholarships, but most are 1500 dollars or something. You need to get three just to cover a year. I'm aiming for the TD one, but there's only a few for the whole country. They pay tuition, 3000 a year living expenses and a gaurenteed job for four years. But you have to be really outstanding to get it.

But back on topic - ask anyone else about the lumbar puncture?

Liv
3rd August 2004, 09:38 PM
Oh Joy, that's so unfair... :-( I hope you get the scholarship, or else you can come and study in Belgium!

About the lumbar puncture :roll: The fibrosis around our fused spines won't make it any easier..... Beh!

Carly
3rd August 2004, 11:48 PM
Yah my brother is paying 4000 a semester just for college!! Not cheap here... Belguim is cheap compared to here!

Kaja
4th August 2004, 12:54 AM
Probably not as expensive as Norway though!! The second most expensive country in the world :D :roll: That's why I'm planning to study in England :joke: Ok, that's not why, I just want to live somewhere crowdy. I am so not used to it.

Joy
5th August 2004, 05:11 AM
Maybe I will come study in Belguim! What languages should I learn? But I want to practice medicine in Canada. I'm very attached to being Canadian. I hope I get scholarships too. But the TD one won't pay for med school... strictly for undergraduate studies. *sighs*

I hope we never need lumbar punctures.

Carly
5th August 2004, 05:31 AM
I want to go to med school as well Joy! I could study in europe if I want because of my dual citizenship but then can i still become a doctor in canada?

Kayla
5th August 2004, 05:42 AM
I never want to become a doctor on account of I might have to deal with people like me!

Carly
5th August 2004, 05:50 AM
LOL Kayla! were you that bad? just kidding

titch
5th August 2004, 02:36 PM
This might be useless info, as things might have changed, but the doc who did my first surgery had also spent a while in practice in Australia and in Canada, so I would think it is entirely possible Carly :-)